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Post by elliej84 on Mar 26, 2017 17:52:00 GMT
We are still a few days away from April, but as there are some eager beavers about, I have decided to open this early Just to reiterate the guidelines, once you have read the book, pop your thoughts in here so we can all see. Please, please mark any spoilers as such and use the white colour font to hide them. I wouldn't want anyone to miss out on the full experience of each book because someone had inadvertently given the game away - although I know of one person who read the white bits... To mark as spoiler, write as normal but place apostrophes around the spoiler section. Then highlight the text and click on the colour wheel and select white, this can only be done from the reply section rather than the quick reply box at the bottom of the thread. The font will still be shown whilst you are highlighted on it, but should vanish when you click away. Thank you for your support once again
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Post by janetandjohn on Mar 27, 2017 7:46:45 GMT
We are still a few days away from April, but as there are some eager beavers about, I have decided to open this early Just to reiterate the guidelines, once you have read the book, pop your thoughts in here so we can all see. Please, please mark any spoilers as such and use the white colour font to hide them. I wouldn't want anyone to miss out on the full experience of each book because someone had inadvertently given the game away - although I know of one person who read the white bits...
To mark as spoiler, write as normal but place apostrophes around the spoiler section. Then highlight the text and click on the colour wheel and select white, this can only be done from the reply section rather than the quick reply box at the bottom of the thread. The font will still be shown whilst you are highlighted on it, but should vanish when you click away. Thank you for your support once again NO! Save
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Post by littlereader on Mar 31, 2017 13:55:26 GMT
This was my review from when I read it a year ago. (I don't think I wrote anything spoilery.)
A compelling, powerful portrait of a marriage, of two lives.
I was intrigued by this novel for a while, and I saw great reviews for it by people who loved it, and I also saw reviews where people were not so keen. I kept thinking shall I, shan't I, read it, and eventually I did give in to the temptation because it wouldn't go away. Well this time I was right to trust that little voice in me that said read this book. I thought it was brilliant.
Lauren Groff writes her story in two halves, first couple of hundred pages tell Lotto's side, under Fates, and the second half of similar length, Furies, gives Mathilde's story. They married at just 22 years old, and the way the novel shines a light on their marriage is superbly done. I feel that in creating Lotto and Mathilde, in the way she portrays them, Lauren Groff demonstrates that she can brilliantly capture people in all their complexity, and show the intense joys and the immense sadness of life.
She has a beautiful writing style, this is intelligent literary fiction, plus she has written a compelling narrative that made this book a real page-turner too. I was drawn in early on and it was fascinating to discover what would happen over the course of their lives together, how their hopes and dreams and expectations would play out as they aged, and to see these lives from both perspectives too.
I'm not very well versed in the aspects of Greek drama that I believe may be in play here, but I understand that the comments in brackets littered in the novel are like a Greek chorus commenting on events/telling us the truth? Anyway, this aspect worked for me too.
Whilst I wouldn't say this was an absolutely perfect novel, I thought it was very good indeed for all the reasons mentioned above - the use of language, the storytelling, the compelling characters. Lotto and Mathilde weren't people I loved, perhaps at times I liked something about them but for the most part I didn't, but they were convincing, and felt real and flawed, and I was invested in their story, wanting to know more, wanting to know what would happen, what was hiding underneath the surface.
I hope this review goes some way to conveying why I really enjoyed this novel. It's the first novel I've read by Lauren Groff, though I've had The Monsters of Templeton sitting on my to be read pile for years, and still plan to read it. After reading Fates and Furies, I'm looking forward to it even more.
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Post by geminii on Apr 3, 2017 11:41:10 GMT
I've reserved my copy form the Library, so hope to read it next ..
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Post by rosemary3 on Apr 3, 2017 19:16:11 GMT
I started today. Enjoying it so far!
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Post by celia48 on Apr 9, 2017 10:02:28 GMT
I really struggled with this book. The first half, Lotto’s life, I found quite boring and the style of writing so flowery that I often had to re-read a sentence to find out what the author meant. The second half was much more interesting, although disturbing, and it held my interest until the end. There were several things which struck me : Why was Lotto so popular? Everyone seemed to like him but I couldn’t see why as I thought he was incredible self-centred. Lotto and Mathilde rarely seemed to talk. Their main interaction was sex and, although Lotto apparently wanted to have children, he never queried why that never happened. Mathilde was very damaged, firstly by being rejected by her parents, brought up by people who didn’t care for her and then abused by Ariel. She had no female role model in her life but nobody questioned why she had no family or friends. I really didn’t understand what the relationship between Lotto and Leo was all about. Although I didn’t enjoy the book very much, I am interested to hear what others think about it.
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Post by geminii on Apr 11, 2017 16:47:26 GMT
Checked my Library Account on-line today & it said the book was available to collect from today .. they close at 4pm, I managed to get there with a couple of mins to go, but no book .. may have to wait until after the Weekend now ..
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Post by rosemary3 on Apr 11, 2017 20:52:59 GMT
Finally finished. I thought this was well written and very interesting, but it seemed to take me ages to get through. Like Celia, I found the first half much slower, although I wouldn't say boring. Just slow. I had to concentrate. Once I got into the second half it was easier, but more conventional. I'm glad I read it, although I wouldn't call it a fun read.
Whited out section follows:
I agree with Celia's points about how strange it was that some things were never questioned - the lack of children (wouldn't he have expected medical investigations?), Mathilde's lack of family and friends when they appeared to be such a sociable couple. It hadn't struck me that there was very little talking between the couple, but it's true. Sexual attraction surely can't hold up a marriage by itself, not for 20-odd years.
On the other hand, I did believe in Lotto's attractiveness. Arrogant people can be very attractive and I thought he had an innocence that was charming. I've known people a bit like that. But he didn't seem to develop at all over the years, which was odd. He seemed emotionally blind, both to himself and to the people around him, and very gullible. I suppose he never had ulterior motives himself - he was very open about his feelings, and what he wanted - and so he never suspected others of having ulterior motives. I felt sorry for him at first, but after the Leo incident I wanted to hit him! That really upset me, and I almost didn't want to read any more at that point.
Mathilde's section wasn't a total surprise - I think we knew there were sharks in the deep waters there. As I said, this section went faster for me, but I think it's the first half that will stick in my mind.
For me, there was a strong feeling of Greek tragedy in the first half in the sense that Lotto's life must have seemed to him randomly beset by inexplicable events good or bad landing on him from a great height with no rhyme or reason, as if he was subject to the whims of different gods. Actually we know there were reasons for everything, most of which were made clear in Mathilde's section if we hadn't already guessed, and all the strings were being pulled by Mathilde, his mother, and to a lesser extent some of his friends.
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Post by elliej84 on Apr 14, 2017 7:17:32 GMT
Blimey, this book took me a while to read. Overall I am glad I persevered, so if anyone is struggling with the first section just keep going.
The first section with Lotto, dragged so much and at times I just wanted to put it down. The writing was beautiful but wordy in places and the jumping around got me so totally confused. Then it just clicked when the Opera part was talked through, wow that writing just got to me!
Then the change to Mathilde, which as others have said was much more conventionally written. At times I hated her whilst at others I felt sorry for her troubled soul. With the reveals and everyone stabbing each others backs. Not what I would call friends really.
For people who were so much in love, there was barely a relationship between them, just a series of deceits on Mathildes part and no real conversation.
I do struggle somewhat with books when I do not particularly like the main characters but Lotto and Mathilde had just enough about them for me to stay invested - parts of this book will stay with me for sometime.
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Post by pennyt on Apr 14, 2017 8:03:25 GMT
I've finally managed to find time to finish off putting my thoughts together on this one. Although, as Rosemary says, it's not a fun read, or even an altogether enjoyable one for me, I thought it was an excellent choice for a group read as there's a lot in it to discuss in terms of the characters and their actions, and as is clear from the comments so far, it's one of those books that sparks off a wide variety of reactions. I didn't read everyone else's views until after finishing my own comments just now and, as always, am fascinated by how most of us agree on some points and differ widely on others. Anyway, here are my thoughts:
I thought this book was going to be a bit like Carol Shields's Happenstance, which is also a book about a marriage, written in two halves, one from the wife's point of view and one from the husband's (though the clever thing about that book is that either half can be read first, and your view of the story and the marriage will vary depending on which half you start with). With Fates and Furies I felt that [highlight to continue reading from here] Mathilde's half of the book didn't so much shed light on her marriage with Lotto as on herself, though even that didn't provide the revelations and understanding that I was hoping for after reading the obviously incomplete and unsatisfactory "Lotto" half. As others have said, I didn't feel there was very much to their marriage, apart from sex, and where I'd expected some revelations in the second half of the book about why they'd stayed together, what the underlying secret of the chemistry between them was, all I was left with was the feeling that these were two damaged and deeply unpleasant people who at least, by marrying each other, had spoiled just one marriage instead of two!
I have to say I didn't find the characterisation all that convincing. Yes, I've met men a bit like Lotto who have some charm despite being arrogant and utterly self-centred, but none quite so delusional as Lotto is about how wonderful he is. And as for Mathilde, even in the second half where we get under her skin a little more, I wasn't convinced by her coldness, remoteness and inability to connect with people emotionally, even taking her childhood experiences into account.
As well as being unable really to believe in the characters, I too was unconvinced by the fact Lotto apparently never questioned their childlessness, and found the Leo episode likewise rather mystifying. However, I felt that both these flaws resulted from the lack of depth to the characters - if you can't believe in them as fully-rounded people, it's very hard to understand their reactions or motivations. What's more, the use of the Greek chorus device (and indeed the title of the book) was presumably intended to make us see this doomed relationship in terms of a Greek tragedy. However, in traditional Greek tragedy the plot and central themes usually revolved around a fatal flaw in the character of one of the protagonists; the drama dealt with the universal themes of humanity (love, loss, abuse of power and so on); and crucially, as the final tragic events unfolded, the protagonist gradually recognised his own part in triggering his fall. I couldn't help but feel that there is (ironically) an element of hubris in the very implication in the use of the chorus device that the events of Fates and Furies have any wider relevance in terms of the human condition.
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Post by mandyj on Apr 20, 2017 13:11:47 GMT
Read and reviewed on Goodreads (3*) a while back and interestingly I can't now remember much about it, so it obviously don't impress me all that much. here's what I wrote at the time.....
Lotto and Mathilde. A great love story, a great romance. Narrated in exhaustive – and sometimes exhausting – detail. A complex and nuanced relationship, told from the point of view of each of them in turn. Is the book too long? Yes. The writing overblown? Yes indeed. Needs editing? Certainly. Pretentious? To a degree. Self-consciously literary? I think so. Is it as good as it thinks it is? Definitely not. But….in spite of all that I actually found it quite compulsively readable. I didn’t like any of the characters. I didn’t even believe in them much. But I did keep reading. And that’s got to go for something, surely. But where all those 5* adulatory reviews come from, I simply don’t know……
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Post by natsplatt on Apr 27, 2017 22:58:50 GMT
I've just finished and actually rather enjoyed it! I'm going to cheat and white it all out, cos I'm no good at noticing what might and might not be a spoiler once I actually know everything, lol!
Like others, I didn't think I was going to enjoy this book, and really struggled in the beginning, finding it overly wordy and pretentious, but I couldn't seem to stop reading, and after finishing, I can't help feeling that it was intentionally overly pretentious, to mirror Lotto's own arrogance perhaps. I agree Mathilde's half of the book was much easier to read, which is what made me think that too!
I found both Lotto and Mathilde very unlikeable, and yet, knowing how damaged they were made me sympathise with them anyway, despite that, I think knowing their stories made me understand why they were so unlikeable, so I felt bad for them.
I disagree with how odd the Leo section was though. It had been mentioned earlier on that Lotto had had daliances with boys before, and being as arrogant as he was, I wasn't surprised by what happened there at all.
Overall, I found I ended up enjoying the book as a good read, as opposed to enjoying the content, although not a total cracker, I didn't dislike it, as I thought I would in the early chapters.
Nat
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Post by shanzi on Apr 28, 2017 18:19:08 GMT
I got this out of the Library in the early days ........I struggled with this to about page 40 and gave up and rather than chuck it out the window, I took it back to Library. I can't give a review because I couldn't absorb any of it. A great book for a group read - but sadly again it wasn't for me.
I look forward to the next choice.
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Post by geminii on May 3, 2017 22:40:06 GMT
I've literally just finished the book & have now read the other comments for the first time, so I'm going to have a think before I add anything to what has already been written ..
05.05 ..
Firstly, I must say that I didn't hate this book, but I didn't love it either .. the writing style has been summed up by mandyj perfectly for me .. "Narrated in exhaustive – and sometimes exhausting – detail. Is the book too long? Yes. The writing overblown? Yes indeed. Needs editing? Certainly. Pretentious? To a degree. Self-consciously literary? I think so. Is it as good as it thinks it is? Definitely not. Where all those 5* adulatory reviews come from, I simply don’t know.."
" I didn't really like any of the characters .. none of them 'popped' off the page into my head as real people, so I wasn't engaged or enthralled by them. As others have said, the first half of the Lotto tale was like wading through treacle, until the Plays section, but then this seemed to drag and lost my interest. He clearly wanted children, and I was disappointed this wasn't really discussed or even rowed about between them. The Mathilde section was a much easier read, but she bored me and I was relieved to get to the end. Her apparent need for a family, but keeping Lotto from his, in more than one way. She seemed to be a bit like a moth .. drawn to his light, basking in it in front of others, but then jealous when he turned the focus elsewhere, however temporarily (E.g Leo). I kept forgetting that this was supposed to be in a contemporary setting, the whole feel was rather older to me .. more Black & White than Colour. I suppose my overall guide is, am I extending the lend and suggest to Mum that she reads it ?? Sadly, NO. "
I would not have chosen this book to read, but I am pleased to have joined in .. will look forward to Q3's choice with interest ..
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Post by elliej84 on May 26, 2017 18:38:57 GMT
I will shortly be revealing Q3 book so people can get organised, is there anyone else planning on reading this book in June? I know there were quite a few of you who were interested, be lovely to hear your thoughts
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