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Post by natsplatt on Jul 6, 2018 20:08:22 GMT
Looks like I'm the first to add my comments on this one! Was I first to read it?!
Excellent choice for the group read Ellie, a really great read, it packs quite a punch! Here's my thoughts
I wasn't sure I was going to enjoy this book at first, well, I'm not sure I can say I enjoyed it at all, that's not really the right phrasing for such an awful subject, but it was a great read.
At first I thought I was going to get annoyed, as not one of the teenage girls was particularly sympathetic, and being far older than them, and definitely never one of the popular/pretty girls at school, I couldn't remotely relate to any of them, and found them bitchy and vile, even to their so-say best friends, and I hated them, and wasn't enjoying the book at all, and was close to throwing in the towel and not bothering at all, however, I decided to plow on, and so glad I did!
Once the real story got going, it got so much better, you really start to feel for Emma and what she went through, and then the horrific aftermath. The way she was treated as the guilty party just because of the clothes she had been wearing,the fact that she had been drinking, etc, was just horrid, and tragically felt far too realistic for comfort! I have to admit to finding her a self serving little madam at the beginning, but no one deserves what happened to Emma, no matter what they are like/what they wear etc! Would be a great book choice for teens, boys and girls!!
Nat
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Post by elliej84 on Jul 7, 2018 12:07:08 GMT
Apologies for the delay in opening the discussion thread. Most of you know how it works not, but for those joining us for the first time, please post your thoughts on the book in this thread. Make sure you 'white out' any spoilers - you can do this by highlighting the text and clicking on the colour wheel. You the select the white font and the highlighted text will show light blue, when you click off the selected text it should then vanish until someone runs their mouse of it  I hope there will be a good discussion from this book, I shall be reading it as soon as I finish my IRL book club read |
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Post by adelynechan on Aug 19, 2018 21:26:09 GMT
I finished the book about a week ago but didn't have the time to sit down and write up my thoughts, which may have been a good thing as that's given me some time to let my thoughts settle although I'm still a bit muddled re: how I feel about the conclusions. Some of my opinions on the book are going to be rather controversial, and I hope this doesn't offend anyone.
Firstly, what I thought of the book. I hated it, for obvious reasons, and the author had clearly made it out to be that way. The book is written to evoke frustration, and it certainly succeeded. O'Neill crafted the story in such a way that there was literally no way that Emma could have "won", as it seemed like the more the story wore on the more people were turning against her (including her own parents) that right at the end she just decided to throw in the towel. At the same time, her assailants were continuing with their own lives seemingly unaffected, whilst she struggles to keep suicidal and depressive thoughts out, with her brother and her next-door-neighbour best friend literally the only people she has for support. That's a pretty bad situation to be in, I wouldn't disagree with that.
Yet, while reading I had some questions which... may make it seem like I did feel she was "asking for it", like the title implies, though for what it's worth I honestly do think that nobody deserves to be treated in that way.
1) Would she have consented, had she been able to? Somehow my gut feeling says she might have, as it would have won her points with the boys and the entire book seems to be about Emma either craving attention from her male friends and/or being jealous of her friends who do. Even though the book is written from Emma's point of view, there is no justification to her behaviour - her stealing, repeatedly putting her friends down and feelings of jealousy.
2) Why did she drag Paul into the bedroom that night?
3) Why did she go to a party a week after the 'incident', with the same boys that she knows would have taken advantage of her if they were given the chance? Why does she still even want to be acquainted with them? If I were in her shoes (and I genuinely pray that this will never be the case), I would not want to be in the same room as my assailants without my lawyer present, and it would be in court certainly not in a social 'let's hang out' sort of scenario.
None of this, of course, takes away the fact that the boys committed a crime which was brushed over both by the authorities (the school and the police) as well as the community ('they are good boys, really' - no they are not!!), which is a real problem in many communities. The school's so-called counsellor didn't try at all to get out of Emma what actually happened, and seemed to just accept her explanation that she was joking and pretending to be unconscious. I'm also slightly disappointed in the way in which the second part of the book - the aftermath bit - was written, as I felt like there could have been more of an effort to get the reader to relate more to Emma instead of continuing to portray her as such an unlikeable character.
The only real thing I liked about the book - something I'm a sucker for - is what a lovely brother Bryan was to Emma. While he did have a part to play in what transpired, he was literally behaving like a teenager would i.e. getting the parents out of the house for a weekend so he could spend some time with his girlfriend. In the aftermath though, I thought he was the only one that rose to the 'challenge': Standing up for her both on the big things (downloading the pictures as evidence, insisting she pursue a criminal investigation, rescuing her from suicide attempts, trying to keep her from reading negative news about herself when depressed) as well as the small things (demanding to know why his father wasn't asking Emma how her day was, not letting his mother give Emma a hard time, just taking her out to the movies to help her relax) which really mattered in a situation like hers.
So all in all, I'm glad I read it. I'm looking forward to seeing what the rest of you thought and maybe participating in some discussion!
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Post by geminii on Sept 5, 2018 13:44:39 GMT
This was a brilliant book for a discussion group, but I knew as soon as I read the blurb, that I wasn't going to enjoy reading it .. strange, I'll admit - more than happy to read about murders et al, but this topic is one I generally avoid ..
" Unlike the groundbreaking film, The Accused, to me this book was a damp squib .. it really annoyed me that in the middle we just skipped a whole year, glossing over the time when Emma's anxieties and self loathing would have exploded, having maximum impact on her and those around her ..
We didn't see her father become the distant and ignorant man he turned into, or her mother climb into the bottle .. Her parents' blatant suggestion that the favour of their Priest was more important than their daughter, and their obvious relief at her decision to withdraw her statement, just about put a cherry on the top for me .. and not in a good way ..
Instead, I felt that we were taken on a downward spiral of rambling and repeating, rather than grasping the opportunity to write Emma as a strong, fighting character, with a supportive network of family and friends .. I was disappointed that the Author didn't want to tackle a gritty court case with a finite ending, so threw her victim under the metaphorical bus with a cop-out ending .. almost giving me the feeling that she believed that Emma was 'Asking For It' .. and turned her back too ..
I saw this as a book of consequences .. or not !!
Emma was supposed to simply accept the consequences of her actions : previous promiscuity, dressing provocatively, revelling in her ability to attract men and flirt with them, even alcohol and drug taking .. all these were considered acceptable to boys who thought she was 'available' to their drunken attack ..
Why do boys think that any of these actions by a woman absolves them of any responsibility for forcing an act to take place .. even more so when she is rendered incapable of any response ?? Chivalry is most definitely dead ..
Where were the boys consequences ? They conspired, they plied, the egged each other on, they filmed, they violated, they shared online, hence they bragged .. they laughed thinking nothing was going to touch them, and nothing did ..
How does this book tackle the increasing problem of entitlement in our society ??
When are boys going to be taught that this is unacceptable behaviour ?? When is society going to stop saying 'boys will be boys' ?? Why is it always the woman who is expected to protect herself ?? Are men such totally crazed beings that they have to be excused their lack of self control ??
I recently read a comment about the illegality of women being able to drive in some Arab States, which summed up everything vile about the male psyche .. it was along the lines of, "Any woman driving a car should expect to be raped" ..
To be balanced, however, I also despair at the total lack of self awareness of many young women today .. skimpy outfits, crazy heels, excessive drinking, falling about in the street .. Acting with more self respect has followed chivalry down the gutter ..
None of them are 'Asking For It', but they flirt and tease, have one-night stands at home or sex with strangers behind the chippy .. women continuously put themselves into dangerous situations, from being drunk or high .. they cannot look after themselves, stand up even, let alone be able to say NO !!
I conclude by saying that if a woman is demonstrating that she has no respect for herself, some men don't see that they need to either .. So sad "
I may have gone 'off-book' slightly here, but in short, an opportunity was wasted .. I don't think I have written anything offensive, but apologies if anyone thinks the opposite .. |
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Post by adelynechan on Sept 5, 2018 19:40:53 GMT
I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that O'Neill seemed to herself give up on Emma midway through the book. At one point I couldn't figure out if she was doing it sort of as a challenge to the reader (a "come on, think differently" kind of approach) or she literally just lost the plot for a bit, but the way it's written was really counter-productive to what I think she is trying to prove.
Also, I fully agree with you about self-respect. It's not a license for others to commit a crime, of course. Saying she was "asking for it" is a bit of a push but Emma certainly did herself no favours. Not just on the night of the incident, but for the entire timeline of the book really.
(end)
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Post by geminii on Sept 5, 2018 20:00:09 GMT
I also think that ..
" Emma was written in such a way at the start, that the reader was almost being channelled into disliking her, so that thinking she deserved the situation was a natural step .. This psychology didn't work with me, I make up my own mind .. so perhaps I am not the target audience "
End
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Post by janetandjohn on Sept 7, 2018 11:35:09 GMT
I chose not to read this one, and reading all the comments above, I am rather glad I didn't. The later comments regarding loss of self respect reminded me of an evening. maybe 20 years ago, whilst driving home in London I saw a young woman on her hands and knees vomiting into the gutter and was stunned. Knowing this kind of stuff happens but seeing it actually happen for the first time are two different things. So whilst this was probably a sad tale, I will give it a miss. Thanks for all the comments though.
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Post by jubee4 on Sept 8, 2018 18:10:18 GMT
Goodness me! What a novel. Hard hitting, harsh, thought provoking and an up for debate topic.
Most fiction have a happy ending but true to form of the storyline this one really doesn't.
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Post by elliej84 on Sept 30, 2018 9:11:09 GMT
Sorry I'm late to the party ladies, time has got away from me over the last few months, that and the fact I did try to read this book a number of times but found Emmas character so obnoxious at the beginning I wanted to throw the book across the room on many occasion.
I actually had to force myself to sit and start this again on Friday night. I couldn't ask that other people read it and not actually bother myself could I?
So where to begin with what I thought about this book...
I have read all of your points and I certainly agree with what has been said. I am annoyed that O'Neill didn't write the court case into the book, that it shows its easier to give in, that the parental unit was not supportive in the slightest. I wish this could have given other girls hope that if it happened to them they could do something about it.
Emma as a character I found to be vile at the beginning, her stealing and bitchyness to her friends did not endear me to her in the slightest. Her heavy drinking, drug taking and promiscuous taste in dress certainly didn't help her situation. She was happy in her drug fuelled mind to have sex with Paul, she wanted to be love, she wanted to be the centre of attention. So was she 'Asking for it'? No, I would say not. The boys that took advantage of her drug fuelled state, posted on facebook and then allowed people to comment - even her friends and brother thought her a slut rather than actually see the photos for what they were portraying!!
One thing I did notice was the readiness to stop the drink driving by Eli but not the sexual act itself - how in culture has it got to the point that we think nothing of sexual assault?
It did make me think a bit more on some things that I have said in the past, that someone readily puts themselves in a situation - Rose McGowan springs to mind. A person should always be able to say no at any stage, but if you dress provocatively, flirt uncontrollably and take a guy up to a bedroom at what point is this guy going to think anything other than that sex will happen? I can understand why a guy could be confused. Well that's my rather jumbled thoughts, the book provoked some good discussion points but I think it could have been handled a bit better.
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